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Meeting Room Construction
15 June 1998
It is interesting to note that every new meeting room is now built
mainly by the brethren themselves. The following article seems to indicate
that they do not adhere to the proper Health & Safety Codes.
(Another comment to me has been, if John Hales says the rapture is
going to take place in the year 2000, WHY do the brethren still think it
nessessary to be building new meeting rooms in the year 1998?)
--Peter Harrison
The following news item appeared in the Halifax Evening
Courier on 30 May 1998.
RESUERS FREE MAN TRAPPED IN DITCH ORDEAL
A man trapped for
almost 12 hours at the bottom of a 20ft deep trench which had collapsed
on top of him was finally freed earlier today. Rescue workers worked
through the night to release Jed Christie, 18, of Quakers Lane, Rawdon,
Leeds. who was buried up to his waist while laying drainage pipes on the
site of a new exclusive brethren meeting room, in Henshaw, Yeadon,
Leeds.
Police say he was in the trench which was being dug in the Henshaw
area of Yeadon when the walls gave way just before 5pm yesterday. Fire
crews said that his life had been saved by a large clay boulder which
fell on top of him preventing him being completely buried. Mr Christie
who was conscious throughout his ordeal appeared to be in good spirits
when he was released at 4.54am. He was taken by stretcher to a waiting
ambulance and is believed to have been taken to the Leeds General
Infirmary.
Inspector Mick Green of West Yorkshire Police, who said Mr Christie
had suffered a broken leg said a JCB had been working on preparatory
work prior to laying drains and had created a 20ft trench.
At some stage Mr Christie, who was working at the site, went into the
bottom of the trench to do some work when the side of the trench
collapsed on him buring him up to his hips
At this point a boulder fell on him creating a cavity which ensured
the man was not totally buried and possibly saved his life
An inquiry into the incident by the Health & Safety Executive was
starting today.
Doctors who examined Mr Christie in hospital later said Mr Christie
discovered he had a fractured pelvis and the damage caused to his left
leg was more severe than first thought. On Saturday afternoon he had an
operation to have his leg amputated and was transfered to a specialised
unit at St James's Hospital.
The following version of the same story appeared in The London
Electronic Telegraph on 31 May 1998
Man freed after 12-hour trench ordeal
A MAN who was buried up to his waist for almost 12 hours under tons
of earth and gravel when the walls of a trench collapsed on top of him
was pulled out "like a cork out of a bottle", his rescuers said.
Jed Christie, 18, suffered a broken leg and hypothermia while he was
trapped at the bottom of the 20ft-deep trench. He was freed just before
5am yesterday by rescue teams who had worked through the night. Mike
Ferguson, of West Yorkshire Ambulance Service, said: "A dozen men pulled
him out like a cork out of a bottle. It was getting to the stage where
the patient's condition started to deteriorate and we decided to pull
him out rather than excavate any more. We put a harness around him and
with his assistance we actually pulled him out."
Mr Christie, of Rawdon, West Yorkshire, was trapped while laying
drainage pipes near his home. Police said he was in the trench which was
being dug in the Henshaw area of Yeadon when the walls gave way just
before 5pm on Friday.
Fire crews said his life had been saved by a large clay boulder which
fell on top of him, creating a cavity and so preventing him being
completely buried. At one stage rescuers, fearful of further landslides,
used their hands carefully to remove the material from around him.
Mr Christie remained conscious throughout his ordeal and was placed
on a drip and given warm water to drink. Rescuers said he appeared to be
in good spirits when he was released. He was being treated at Leeds
General Infirmary.
Mike Pierce, an assistant divisional fire officer, said the rescue
teams had fought for many hours in difficult conditions. He said: "There
was always the risk of a further collapse of the trench."
Insp Mick Green, of West Yorkshire Police, said: "At some stage Mr
Christie, who was working at the site, went into the bottom of the
trench to do some work when the side of the trench collapsed on him,
burying him up to his hips."
In a statement Mr Christie's uncle said: "We are so thankful Jed is
alive and stable. His faith in Christ helped him through the ordeal." He
confirmed that Mr Christie was a member of the Plymouth Brethren. The
building site designated for light industry may also include a meeting
hall for the Brethren.
A Health and Safety Executive spokesman said that an investigation
into the incident had started.
Received 19 June 1998
First of all I would like to make two points before I say anything on
this subject.
1. The site would be run by one particular brother who had building
knowledge.
2. The running of them tended to be quite smooth.
On the site at Salisbury I do know there was a designated Safety
Officer and Saftey procedures were gone over in a very thorough way at a
brother's business premises before work could start on the site.
I myself have in the past worked on many Meeting Room Sites, some were
well organized and others left a lot to be desired.
The usual thing would be that the meeting would be near where the site
was and it would be at about 7:00 am that the brothers would all get up
and go to the site where a breakfast would be provided for them by some
sisters. (This would be cooked and hot for the workers.) Breakfast would
be at 8:30 am and work was meant to start soon after. If some brothers had
started work, breakfasts would be in shifts.
Work would then carry on til mid morning tea break at 10:30 am then
carry on til dinner at 12 - 12:30 pm. They would have an afternoon tea
break at 3:30 pm and would normally finish on the site at 4 - 5:30 pm.
On the sites children as young as 12 yrs old were allowed to come and
help!!!.
Having being involved in suppling Ironmongery to the rooms, I can
confirm that they are built to a very high standard, with only the best
materials being used.
The normal plan would be that if you supplied goods to the sites they
had to be cost price, as it was a sin to make a profit from the supply of
goods to meeting rooms, if you were involved in any job of this kind.
The normal method of working would be that some one who had building
experience would run the site as a site manager (althought I do know of
one brother who ran certain sites who was not a builder being only a
salesman and picking peoples brains and books for information.) Other
responsibilities would be given out to other brothers to organize i.e
arranging work schedules and organizing work teams. These came from other
cities outside of the area.
There were full time builders among the brethren who would work on the
sites at weekends or give up some of their other times to work there.
I learnt to do brickwork which led me to have enough knowledge to build
an office at home.
I must admit that on the whole most sites were run smoothly, but I have
seen some near misses, due to inexperience or too many people doing the
same thing..
It was a good laugh as well...about the only time we could enjoy
ourselves.
Only the brothers were allowed to work on the site. Maybe at a later
stage women were allowed to come in to do the dusting and hoovering when
it was almost finished.
The wives sometimes turned up to see their husbands but they were not
meant to stay too long, certainly the kids were not allowed out of the
vehicles for fear of them getting into everything.
--John
Received 21 June 1998
Your previous correspondant states "It was a good laugh as well",
implying a great deal of fun. In the 70's I worked on one of these sites
in Australia - I was just 14. There were numeous acidents, some minor,
some serious (1 kid fell off the 30ft high roof!). Kids as old as 14-16
were operating heavy machinery etc. all under the watchful eye of the
designated Safety Officer (who happened to be a member of the EB's who
started his morning with a Scotch!)
Just another example of the way that the EB's bend the rules. I am sure
that using EB labour (including child labour) is not for cost cutting
reasons (they have loads of money in the common pot), but rather to keep
the men folk busy, and give the teenage menfolk something different to do
in between interchange. Hence "It was a good laugh as well."
--Anonymous
Received 2 July 1998
I read with interest John's reply to my initial reporting,
I wonder how these brothers manage to get the skills of building, when
they are not allowed to go anywhere near a technical college let alone a
university.
Just watching Daddy do it, doesn't qualify anyone!
Since the mid sixties no EB has been allowed to attend further
education of any sort, so just HOW! do they accquire these qualifications
to turn themselves into a Safety Officer.
The EB's are not allowed to train to be doctors! but they are quick
enough to seek a doctor's help, when an incident like this one happens.
--Peter Harrison
Received 4 July 1998
The Daily Mail (UK) covered this incident. Maybe someone in the UK has
a copy which can be placed on this site - it goes into more detail than
the above article.
Peter's response "hit's the nail on the head" - how do these
individuals satisfy supposedly stringent experience and learning
requirements? When you read the so called meeting notes - most cannot
string a paragraph together - let alone discuss the scriptures in a
meaningful way (their supposed expertise).
One can only assume that passing whatever tests that are required, is
through learning "parrot fashion," or the applications contain references,
declarations etc. by others that are either false or at best, contain a
great deal of "lilly guilding."
--Anonymous
Received 8 July 1998
In the late 70's in Australia, it was acceptable to attend a Technical
College. These institutions provide courses that lead to the award of
either a diploma or a certificate, the difference relating to time spent
on the course. Some of these diploma courses satisfy the entry
requirements for various trades. Most of them do not satisfy the entry
requirements for professions.
The official line against Universities was that they are places of
evil. I recall in the 70's JH Symington stating over and over again in
meetings (and subsequently printed in his writings or ramblings) that
"anybody with a degree should piss on it." JS Hales was of course at that
time cooling his heels - withdrawn from, so presumably his is safely
stored away.
The distinction is amazing - a 3 year diploma at a technical college
was / is acceptable whereas a 3 year degree from a University was / is
not. I have been to a number of University and Technical Colleges campuses
- there is no difference in the variety of students, religions, colours,
nationalities, attitudes to sex, drugs, politics, religion etc etc.
One can only deduct that the EB's want to lower the education level to
the lowest common denominator. I recall people stating in the 70's how
wrong JS Hales and WB Hales and their 1960's commerce system was; yet
[now] JS Hales [is] a brilliant man!!!! When the average EB has no
education past 16 or 18, of course the current leader with his formal
education would appear smart!
--Anonymous
Received 18 July 1998
I believe that it is possible to be educated beyond the age of "16 or
18". One normally completes high school around the age of 16-18, and then
it is acceptable among the Exclusive brethren to complete a Technical
Education course, which may be several years in length. Most trades
courses are around 4 years, so it is not entirely correct to say that
these people are not educated. Most of their further education is
channelled into more practical areas. This is in line with the beliefs of
not using computers, etc. More practical forms of education, eg, trades,
allow for a livelihood without having to compromise beliefs.
--Anonymous
Received 2 August 1998
The previous writer is of course correct when he or she states that
it is possible to be educated beyond the age of 16 or 18.
Education in the wider sense is made up of everything learned or
experienced during a lifetime. If this experience is a result of spending
almost 100% of your life with "clones" of one's self, and one is not
encouraged to have an enquiring mind, coupled with perhaps sub standard
secondary education and no tertiary education - is that an education??
The effect is even more pronounced when you extrapolate over 2 or more
generations. As Peter Harrison stated "Just watching daddy do it, doesn't
qualify anyone." I would add that listening to daddy's and grandaddy's
pearls of wisdom may be as relevant as Henry Ford's version of marketing -
"the public will buy cars - we will give them any colour as long as it is
black".
Without external stimuli, EB kids develop very black and white views on
every aspect of life. Life is not like this. EB's are not encouraged to
enquire - just follow. Growing up without television, in itself, is not
the issue. Taking kids out of public schools at 11-12 certainly is - this
deprives the children of any contact with "outsiders." THE RESULT IS
DECLINING LEVELS OF EDUCATION. IT WAS EVIDENT IN THE 80'S AS IT IS NOW !
--Anonymous
Received 6 August 1998
When I read the comment of July, 18 1998, I cannot but help see a
parallel with the Ludites. If my recollection is correct, these people
feared the introduction of machines - the commencement of the industrial
revolution. They were wrong with their fears then. We are witnessing the
commencement of the information revolution. Those who fear it, try to
avoid employment that utilises computers (i.e the likes of the EB's who
direct the young "to more practical forms of education" ( and in who's
opinion is it more practical?) will be ill prepared and one day under
educated (if not already) for the world in which they will seek to earn a
living.
To my knowledge none of the three holy books (Torah, Bible and Koran)
contain any stipulations that preclude an education. Surely a "practical
form of education" is to be trained as a nurse, doctor or dentist (no
longer allowed).
The EB edict against obtaining a degree from a University cannot be
supported by scripture or for any other good reason.
--Anonymous
Received 31 July 1998
Is there any information on current EB meeting halls? For example there
is a HUGE one right by Coventry Airport, and interestingly the story of
the lad getting stuck in the trench during the building programme was
working on one right by Leeds Airport. There is also another big one close
to London’s Heathrow Airport and another by Bristol Airport. Is this a
policy of theirs??
--Anonymous
Received 8 August 1998
Re the comment about building near Airports in the UK. Could the reason
be that the noise pollution created by cars arriving at 05:30 hrs on a
Sunday morning, pales to insignificance compared to even one Boeing 747 at
100 - 500 metres. Hence the EB's would insulate the inside of their halls
and it would be hard for any surrounding neighbours to complain about the
halls and the EB's comings and goings, when compared to the noise from
aircraft.
--Anonymous
Received 14 August 1998
There was certainly no option for further education for my older
sisters or brother, two at least attempted to go to college but were
denied by EB rules. At least by the early 70s’education was limited to
Secondary (UK) school (16 years old) for all those in the EB. For myself
born in 1960, even getting a good education until 16 if not actively
discouraged was certainly not encouraged. As Aug 2 commented, as kids we
were actively discouraged from learning (other than JT or JHS doctrine).
Luckily I got out before I completely lost the ability to ask “Why?”.
Asking questions about matters other than ministry or doctrine were
discouraged.
My father with a First at Oxford University and a Masters degree in
chemistry tried with many others to “repudiate” (I believe that was their
catchword) his degree. I recently read some old correspondence between my
father and the university where they said in essence that they could not
re-write history. What they wanted was their names erased from the college
records as if that somehow altered who or what they were!!!
--Chaz Taylor
Received 17 August 1998
[In the early 1990's] some 16 years olds were allowed to go to a
college in Yeovil (England). There were a group of about 30 of them from
Torbay, Exeter, Taunton and Yeovil, but because [they were] young and
boisterous they got up to no good even with some of the parents present
and therefore that was banned. More messing about was done than the
education of them. Therefore they decided that further education was not
permissable and it was abolished.
It is just the children of 5 and up who are taught at home til they are
16 then they go on to work for brethren, none of them have anything like
good qualifications.
--Withheld
Received 18 August 1998
It is to be expected that these poor young people would be "young and
boisterous" and "they got up to no good." This type of behaviour is a
result of these kids not knowing how to handle their surroundings. It is
like the first 12 months of any young person leaving such a restrictive
environment (CULT). The natural incliniation is to throw out everything
and try everything new. How many try smoking, excess drinking, maybe
"wacky tabacco" etc, only to realise some time later that this is not what
life is all about?
--Anonymous
Received 23 August 1998
I have not contacted you before, being fairly new to the Internet;
although I did ask a friend of mine (Pete Harrison) to e-mail you the
details of a sad accident near Leeds early in June; this concerned [an]
18-year-old who spent a night trapped in a trench; an awful accident
apparently on a new Meeting Room building site. If you are interested, he
is now home again, and making a good recovery, so far as can be
ascertained. He had an "op" to pin his pelvis (fractured in two places)
and also is going to have an artificial leg fitted. It is hoped he will
perhaps be on his feet again by the end of the year. (Info from local
newspaper and hospital).
--David C. Glover
Received 25 October 1998
The Bristol meeting Room is in Brisligton rather than by the airport
which is in a rural setting.
Posted 31 October, 1998
The following article appeared in the Yorkshire Evening Post
on 17 October, 1998.
Dad who paid heavy price for DIY tragedy
£7,500 fine after son loses his leg in trench horror
A father's large scale DIY building project which ended with his son
losing his leg was "an accident waiting to happen", a court was told.
Teenager Jed Christie had been helping to dig a sewer on land in
Yeadon, Leeds, owned by his father, Lance, in May when the sides of the
trench caved in, Pudsey magistrates were told.
Jed, 18, who had been digging the trench along with another man, was
trapped for 12 hours. He remained conscious throughout the ordeal.
The teenager was eventually rescued by firefighters and parametics
and taken to hospital but his left leg had to be amputated to save his
life.
His 42-year-old father, of Quakers Lane, Rawdon, Leeds, was fined a
total of £7,500 after pleading guilty to three breaches of Health and
Safety rules.
David Robins, prosecuting on behalf of the Health and Safety
Executive, told the court that the work was being done on a site that
Christie had bought for £200,000 in order to begin development of an
industrial estate.
Christie, whose company, Weavabel, makes clothing labels, was hoping
to expand his business interest on the site.
Instead of appointing an official contractor he approached family
friend Philip Beaumont to work on the preparatory site to work alongside
Jed.
The court heard that Mr. Beaumont had had limited experience of
drainage work.
Despite advice from consultants who said a supervisor was needed,
Christie went ahead with the preparatory work.
Mr. Robins said: "This trench in its unsupported state was an
accident waiting to happen.
"It was clearly calling for careful planning and the observance of
the strictest safety measures.
"Mr. Beaumont said he thought the trench was safe. Jed told me that
on the afternoon there was a need to get the trench safe because
children were around the area.
"For Jed it was a horrible experience. This was a DIY job on a grand
scale -- a job that went wrong.
"This should act as a warning to others.
"The defendant is a scarred man. He and his wife stood during the 12
hours not knowing whether their son would come out alive. He has paid a
price, a heavy price."
For his failure to appoint a contractor, Christie was fined £3,500.
He had breached regulations which required the company to take practical
steps to ensure the safety of his employees, which was punished by a
£2,000 fine.
For failing to appoint a planning supervisor he was also fined
£2,000. In addition, Christie was ordered to pay costs of £350.
Malcolm Hacking, defending, said: "It was always Mr. Christie's
intention to have the commercial works undertaken by a genuine
contractor.
"What we are talking about here is the preparatory works.
"He had for some time been looking for some land to expand his
business. He is a sensitive, honest and hard-working family man.
"He began the work with a well-intentioned early start. The accident
itself was a cataclysmic incident.
"Mr. Christie himself did not believe he was deliberately ignoring or
flouting the rules.
"He had no reason to believe that what was being done was not being
done reasonably.
"On that afternoon they had made a decision to carry on with the
work. They thought they would get away with it but obviously they
didn't.
"The family find no place in their hearts to blame or accuse each
other. I do not believe you are looking at a big commercial operation.
"You are dealing with a case of misplaced trust and ignorance. You
can't be harder than Mr. Christie has been on himself.
Received 31 October 1998
The father was very lucky in that once again, the courts see such as an
isolated breach of Health and Safety Regulations. The EB's regularly
breach regulations in factories, on building sites etc. across the world.
The EB's also "sail close to the wind" regarding minimum wages and
employment conditions, knowing there are no unions with which to contend.
The EB's cut corners and they know it!
--Anonymous
Received 1 November 1998
Why is it the Brethren can get away with anything? But anyone else has
to pay the price.
--Anonymous
Received 4 November 1998
The Brethren cannot "get away with anything" and do indeed have to pay
a price, just like everybody else, if they are found guilty of
misdemeanours. Are you suggesting that had Mr Christie not been a memember
of the Exclusive Brethren, his punishment would have been greater? I doubt
it but even if it were the case, that's a problem with the Bristish
justice system, not the EB's.
--Phil
Posted 5 November 1998
My understanding is that the brethren "got away" from a finding that
they were constructing a meeting room without a contractor. Instead, one
of their number "took the fall" as we say in the states, even though the
original newspaper article clearly identifies the construction site as
being for a meeting room.
--Dick Wyman
Received 5 November 1998
Re 1 November 1998 question.
Answer: Because they are liars when it serves their interests. Also
cases are heard generally on a case-by-case basis; rarely are precedents
looked for. One day more and more will be available to anyone on the www,
and judges etc. will see a clear pattern - that we are not dealing with
"just a simple God fearing Christian" as one defendant put it - but rather
brain washed robots from a cult. Some realise they are liars, others don't
due to the brainwashing.
--Anonymous
Received 3 November 1998
The Jims are not the only people to withdraw their children from the
public education system to keep them from the evil influences in schools.
A group of born-again Christian churches in Hertfordshire set up a school
staffed only by church members for the very same reason. Several of their
pupils have gone on to Oxbridge (something young Jims would not be able to
do). I also have non- Brethren cousins in Texas who are likewise educated
at home for the same reason. They have excellent parent/child bonds and
the children are well educated and respectful. I believe that, in general,
the children of Jims are looked upon very favourably by school
authorities.
I noticed basketball posts/goals in the car park of the Winnipeg city
room last year. Does this mean the rooms are used for teaching and the car
park is a playground, or is it only for use between meetings? Does anyone
know?
--Arthur Boyt
Received 11 November 1998
Re 3 Nov 98 comment. It would appear that Mr Boyt has not witnessed the
recent "products" of the home education system - no university, certainly
not a university of standing would have such. Also re the comment "I
believe that, in general, the children of Jims are looked upon very
favourably by school authorities", scratch the surface harder, have
teachers comment "off the record" and they will tell you that EB kids are
a nightmare!. Withdrawing kids from state schools ar 12 or so, also limits
problems. The teachers in the EB only schools are on the EB payroll, non
unionised and compliant - hence no problems!
--Anonymous
Received 2 December, 1998
Well, as far as homeschooling goes, I homeschooled all my kids. My son
started public school last year and was indeed a "nightmare" to the
school. He was so far advanced he needed to be moved up several grades in
several areas.
My oldest daughter started school this year. She has fit quite well
into a grade above her age level.
I guess in homeschooling, as in public schools, there is a great
difference in what is taught, and how it is taught.
As to what the "jims" teach? I don't know, but all homeschooled kids
aren't at a disadvantage.
--Heather
Received 29 December 1998
Re Dec 2 Comment - What do they teach?
Certainly not how to use a dictaphone, fax, computer, internet or
email, TV, video, cd, dvd, radio, or how to read anything remotely like a
decent novel, the classics etc. Certainly very limited biology and no sex
education.
Certainly nothing to equip them to function as independent adults in
the world in which we are forced to live and interact in business.
"Good old 3 R's. Reading Righting and Rithmatic" as one leader put
it!!!
--Anonymous
Received 5 January 1999
The main lessons the children get taught in Home Education are. Maths,
English and JSH says to make sure they learn a Language of some kind:
German or French. History and Science. Reading of sensible books. The
Bible was meant to be the main one.
It is a sad life and not a happy one for the kids. They have to do P.E
but if your house is not big enough it is very hard. They have to teach
the children with no other aids like Video's or anything else just pure
Brain functions and any knowledge if you have any. They are not taught to
swim as that is wrong as you will be mixing with others, so most of the
children in the Brethren cannot swim. A day for a Home Educated child can
be very hard for them and the parents as they can get very bored and fed
up. As there is nothing else to brighten up the day with.
I know there are a lot of people who may say [they] have educated
[their] child at home and suceeded but they will have had all the other
perks that go with it, to help them out.
--Priscilla
Received 5 February 1999
All the halls in Redhill, Surrey UK are systematically being rebuilt.
There are no windows, why? The halls have a statutory notice to cover the
places of worship act with a phone number. With the phone number I thought
I would try visiting an EB meeting. I rang the number many years ago to
see if I could get in for a meeting. But I must have been expected to give
a password to a challenge.
"Do you like Ice cream ?"
I did not pursue the subject.
I will withhold my name so there may still be a chance at some time in
the future to get in the new halls which must be a right as a Reigate and
Banstead ratepayer
Received 15 February 1999
Re 5th Feb correspondant. If you care to contact me I may be able to
give you a bit more detail.
--Charles Dunn a1fxg@aol.com
Received 10 September 1999
Interested in the above as I worked on a number of Brethren meeting
halls with my brother in the 80's.
The first one I worked on was London in West Norwood which was
condemned by JHS while building, because of a lack of car parking. That
became a serious issue for the London boss, Oliver Woodcock. In hindsight
it was ludicrous what went on. People with no skill at all were screeding
concrete floors, constructing weight bearing infrostructures and
installing building services.
When I left in 1990, London were again building a new room. My brother
and I mainly did the electrical installations. We at least were
qualified!!
Because of the vast limitations placed on Brethren as to their
employment, due to lack of further education and not being allowed to mix
and belong to associations etc.. many brethren turned to building and
associated industries. There were a huge amount of cowboy builders, DIY
personnel one day, buildong constructors the next. Some were good at what
they did as the younger ones went through craft courses and the like. The
worry is the ones who really don't know what they are doing. Brethren do
work very hard, though, a trait which has personally served me well in my
subsequent employment.
There was an incident in South London in 1988, where a young brother
was killed on a building site, which was run by brethren builders. I do
not recall the outcome of the hearing at that time.
My heart goes out to the younger generation of brethren because there
is so much waste there. Leaving becomes a virtual impossibility because
the bubble that is put around them. I believe Christians should pray for
God to intercede for those who are bound by fear.
James Devenish 10/09/99
Received 2 October 1999
Extracted from the press articles:
"the site of a new exclusive brethren meeting room, in Henshaw, Yeadon,
Leeds." First article
"Christie, whose company, Weavabel, makes clothing labels, was hoping
to expand his business interest on the site". Second article
Presumably now that the fine has been paid and the spotlight is no
longer on this activity, they are able to get on with what was always
intended? i.e. build a new meeting room using non-paid non-regulated EB
labour. Can any one provide an update?
--anonymous
Received 4 February 2000
(I am not a member (or Ex-) of the Exclusive Brethren) - I was
attempting/hoping to locate an old schoolfriend on the site, when this
caught my eye, and I thought I might presume to add a little, given the
interest shown)
I don't know a great deal about the EB, but certainly some of them in
the Uk were until recently still attending state schools - notably, Jed
Christie, the subject of this article, who attended my comprehensive
school until the age of 16, and like his elder sister (in my class), took
the standard 9 GCSEs and performed well in them (another EB girl actually
entered the Sixth Form and took A-levels in '93/94-ish). However I believe
that the north Leeds Brethren have now changed their policy, and children
of this age no longer attend the school.
And yes, not withstanding the airport, there were local complaints
about the granting of planning permission because of the noise etc.
--Catherine M
Received 29 September 2000
POST COMPULSORY EDUCATION
I am a Director of Studies of an Institute for Technical & Further
Education in Australia. As I have only just read this site tonite, I
remembered something, that others may either know about or be able to
check on.
In or about 1995 a course was submitted for accreditation - "Associate
Diploma of Business (Accounting - Non Computerised)" This is the academic
qualification required for public practice at the second tier level, and
does also qualify one for registration as a Tax Agent (for tax return
lodgements in Australia)
Has anyone any knowledge of this or a similar arrangement in any other
countries? I have since tried to follow it up but cannot locate the course
on the database or any who have any knowledge of it.
I was originally going to be a doctor but was dragged out of school in
1960 at 16 years of age. The only acceptable profession (I was not keen on
manual work and dirty hands!)was Accountancy, and we all did it by
Distance Education and then registered with the only state that had a
Public Accountants Registration Board - New South Wales. Being a
Victorian, my address was at 320 Pennant hills road Carlingford along with
countless others.
I always thought that none outside would get access to their financial
arrangements, so there must be still some education going on in this area.
John Hales profession is that of an Accountant - surely that would
"sanctify" it?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Incidentally I am still an accountant registered for public practice,
but not at that address -the first thing that i did after leaving was to
take out membership of the CPAs. They accepted my 13 years old passes and
my PARB and Company Auditors registrations in place of a degree, and
checked with a list that apparently showed all EB accountants. I found
that interesting, and in 1986 when I chaired the CPA public practitioners
for this State (Victoria Australia) found that a record did in fact exist
earlier.
--Dr Peter French (carlyle@celestial.com.au)
Received 30 October 2000
Anybody fancy working for Mr Christie?? He [is] looking for a sales
representative for his company. Get this though, you have to [be] honest
(!) and able to work within a team. Hard work and good performance are
well rewarded. Apply in writing. (Yorkshire Post October 2000.)
Interestingly there is a sociology graduate who is or was employed at
Mr Christie's company who graduated between 1994 and 1996. Maybe the EB
girl who did A levels?
Destinations
of Sociology Graduates
--Anonymous
Received 17 November 2000
Almost all meeting halls are now built by contractors, although I think
this is mainly because of the declining number of EBs who are in the
building trade, rather than a deliberate policy shift.
As to education, Hales prefers all kids to get more than just the
compulsory schooling, and for a while in the UK it was assumed he meant
A-levels would be a good thing. Doctors, accountants etc. would be no go
because you can't practise without compromise - Hippocratic Oath for
doctors, and associations for other professionals.
--Anonymous
Received 2 April 2001
The fated meeting house in Yeadon appears to have been built but by the
so called 'Christian' Brethren about 3 miles away, on Brownberrie Lane,
Horsforth, opposite a college and very near the airport at Yeadon. It has
a long driveway from the main road, and actually has a sign saying it is a
Brethren meeting house.
--Anonymous
Received 24 April 2001
Re: "Associate Diploma of Business (Accounting - Non Computerised)"
Available at Whitehorse College of TAFE, Box Hill, Victoria
Set up by
the EB's in conjunction with the College in 1994, and they have made
provision to be able to lodge tax returns as well. Some selected EB's are
encouraged to go on and do Auditing.
--Anonymous
Received 8 August 2001
The meeting houses in Wollongong, New South Wales all seem to look like
power sub-stations. No windows, airconditioning ducts, concrete yards, and
high fences topped by barbed wire. Can anyone from outside ever become a
EB?? or is it by birth only??
--Curious/Australia
Received 18 November 2001
I remember Lance Christie well and can confirm he was an honest and
decent person, and would have suffered far more than anyone through this
incident. I can just imagine all the whispered critcism and backstabbing
he would get in the peebs.
Certainly he was responsible for the accident, but it seems the whole
scheme was largely a meeting room project until it went badly wrong - then
it became Lance Christie's property development enterprise.
--Gerard Rayment
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