From: janda@dimensional.com (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Newsgroups: 
alt.religion.scientology,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.support.bruderhof
Subject: Re: What is "Bruderhof"? was: Re: Newsgroup Lawsuit (Bruderhof)
Date: 28 Jun 1997 10:57:51 -0600
Organization: Dimensional Communications
Lines: 212
Message-ID: <5p3fqf$24j@flatland.dimensional.com>
References: <33AB0EBA.795A@worldnet.att.net> 
<33b07c45.14485804@news.mindspring.com> <x7JtzMdlg06U092yn@islandnet.com> 
<33B4F269.378D@worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: flatland.dimensional.com
Xref: thingy.apana.org.au alt.religion.scientology:84911 
alt.support.bruderhof:79

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[Note:  Reformatted for easier reading.  If you haven't read Martin's
quote about the Bruderhof, find <x7JtzMdlg06U092yn@islandnet.com>, and
bask in knowledge.]

In article <33B4F269.378D@worldnet.att.net>,
Bill Peters  <petersfamily@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Martin Hunt said:
>>With all this discussion of the Bruderhof and there actions taken 
>>against a discussion newsgroup devoted them, I think it's time to
>>give a bit of information about what they are:
>
>The Bruderhof is no longer associated with the Hutterians. Please read
>the following.
>
>The Hutterian Church Excommunicates The Bruderhof, 1990 (transcript)
>
>The Hutterian Brethren Church of the Darius & Lehrerleut Conference to the
>Society of Brothers who call themselves Hutterian Brethren: 12/11/90:
>
>Greetings: The reuniting of the Hutterian Brethren Jan 7, 1974, at
>Sturgeon Creek Colony, Manitoba, with the Society of Brethren, or
>Arnold Leut, Woodcrest, New York, was the topic of the meeting and
>conversation. We were all in unison that you were accepted on a
>probationary basis, so that you would get acquainted and accept the
>teaching and tenets, rules, Ordnungen and Principles of The Hutterische
>Church as they were practiced by us at that time and our forefathers, so
>that you may adopt and adhere to them, which up to that time you shunned
>and trod with your feet, and in fact disgraced and abused the messengers
>that were sent to you from time to time, all out of love for your 
salvation. 
>
>First: Regarding Millennium: You still cling to the false doctrine of
>The Millennium, the so-called 1000 years of The Kingdom, which is against
>The Apostolic Creed (articles 6 & 7) to which we all said 'Yes and Amen' 
in
>our baptismal vows, and again those of us in the ministry of the 'Word.' 
Our
>forefathers made no mention of this 1000 years of The Kingdom of God
>here on earth, in their abundant writings and epistles in which they
>recognize the 1st and 2nd Advent, or The Coming of our Lord; of the
>third they know not. We agree wholeheartedly with them. This Blumhardt
>teaching we cannot accept. 
>
>Secondly: The Rearing of Children: We cannot agree with you on the issue
>of sending young people to school outside of our communities at the age
>when they need the most protection from the wiles of the devil which are
>rampant in this world as never before. The reasons stated in Johann
>Christoph Arnold's letter of Nov 2, '86 (especially reason No. 2) are
>totally not acceptable to us, even though he erroneously tried to prove
>that our Hutterian forefathers sent their young people out in the world
>for a trial period of up to two years. We have many other sermons that
>prove that the passage he quotes from Heb. 12:5-9 was only intended as an
>analogy or comparison. The rearing of children (your letter of Nov. 3, 
1986
>defending your position) is not in harmony with the teachings of 
Ehrenpreis
>(pps. 70-74) or in Peter Rideman's book, (p. 130). You on the contrary 
need
>teachers, nurses, doctors, for your business, for your means of income,
>people with technical knowledge. Why didn't Jesus think of that when he
>chose his disciples? He must have been very naive not to know how to
>build his church to make such a selection. 
>
>We fear that sending our children, and especially our young people who
>have reached the age of puberty, into outside schools is like throwing
>lambs out to the wolves. At this age, young people are most vulnerable to
>evil influences. This is not a good way to test for 'dead wood.' Delphini. 
>
>Third: March to protest Death Penalty: Referring to 'The Plough' # 25
>(Aug, 1990) 'Hutterites March Against Death Penalty.' What a disgrace.
>Surely Christians are against any kind of killing, whether by the Death
>Penalty or any other form, but have we ever heard of Hutterites marching
>with other denominations, or taking part in such activities? No! Never in
>Hutterite history or in biblical history. What would our forefathers say 
to
>such practices? Or Paul 2 Cor 6:13-16. How did you dare to say that you 
were
>representing the Hutterites in Canada???? 
>
>Fourth: Torches, Idols: Your use of fire and candles in your gatherings
>and services is also foreign to us. We believe that this is on the road 
that
>leads to idolatry. 
>
>Five: Presentation of babies to the church: Your presentation of babies
>to the church may look like an innocent ritual to you, but seems to us as
>being only half a step away from infant baptism. 
>
>Six: Supporting Courts: The condoning or abetting of one Colony or Colony
>Member suing another in a secular court of law, in which you have been a
>willing and aggressive partner in complete contrast to the advice of Paul:
>
>   "Dare any of you having a matter against another go to law before the
>    unjust, and not before the saints," etc. etc. 1 Cor 6.
>
>It is also against the stand Hutterites have taken for 4 1/2 centuries.
>(Matth 5:25-26, 38-48.) 
>
>Seven: Hutterite Sermons, Musical and Acting: Wedding at Elm River in
>Manitoba. Where in the 500-year history of the Hutterites have we ever
>heard of play acting, putting on a live show or imitating any part of
>the scripture, or the words of the bible or any parable (The Ten Virgins)?
>
>Surely this was a dishonor to God and church. Imagine imitating the devil
>and our Savior Jesus Christ! What blasphemy and impious act before God! 
And
>when asked at a meeting Oct 8, 1987, this was denied, and the truth was
>refused deliberately. Where are the teachings of Peter Rideman, whom you
>said and claimed you were following more fervently than any of the three
>Leut? And this was also affirmed by some of the Schmiedenleut Ministers,
>when all along they and you knew that this was not being done. One can
>only imagine how much more of this is going on in the eastern colonies.
>
>How did you dare to willfully violate the ordinances and humble practices 
of
>the scripture and the church by introducing musical instruments on any
>occasion? Has this not infiltrated in some of our dear Schmiedenleut
>Colonies and caused a drifting in your direction? This is why we are so
>concerned and therefore, try by all means, to not let this happen, to
>our Lehrerleut and Dariusleut Colonies. So help us God. 
>
>And also the main downfall of your people is that you do not preach the
>Hutterian Sermons, or Lehren, which to us are so sacred, and indeed
>biblical, and were written by men of suffering and inspiration of the
>Holy Ghost, and were sealed with blood and tears. These sermons are the
>solid foundation that keeps our church alive and in order, and Jesus is 
the
>head of this true church. The booklets that you publish and send to all 
the
>colonies are as far apart from these sermons as heaven and earth, 
especially
>the last one was utter nonsense. Note 2 Cor 5: 6-7. 
>
>Eight: Regarding Baptism: It has been brought to our attention that you
>still baptize by immersion. If so, we advise you to read p. 417 or the 
whole
>letter that Elder Peter Walpot wrote the Polish delegates in the year 
1570,
>written in 'The Chronicle of the Hutterites.' Because of this, the 
Hutterian
>Brethren did not accept them even as novices. 
>
>Nine: The Letter from New Zealand [quoted KIT II # 9 Oct '90 - ed.]:
>Your blaspheming attitude about the Word of God (see letter of April 27,
>1987) by Neville Cooper to Jacob Kleinsasser) 
>
>     1. The Bible is the greatest weapon of the devil. 
>     2. The Bible is not the Word of God. 
>     3. The living Word is the Word of God which God 
>     wants to speak to us at this moment, not what he 
>     said to Moses, or Elijah, or even to Jesus. 
>
>Ten: Lovemeal: Our opposition to your lovemeals which you practice today,
>which our former Elder Rev. Joseph Waldner refers to in his letter to you
>April 6, 1975, wherein he tells you they do not belong to us. 
>
>Although it is true that in 1974 the Schmeidenleut, Lehrerleut and two of
>the Dariusleut ministers agreed to the uniting with the Arnoldleut after
>they heard the pleas of the then present Arnoldleut, and we earnestly
>thought you would adopt the Hutterian Brethren Customs and traditions and
>ordinances as much as possible (and all Elders acted in good faith), 
however
>we are very well aware that you did not keep your promises, and instead of
>coming closer to us, you are so to speak, deliberately drifting in the
>opposite direction. Especially like in the case of musical instruments and
>radios, you seem to have absolutely no concern whatsoever whether we agree
>with you or not. It doesn't seem to bother you the least bit, let the 
other
>Hutterians think what they may, therefore, even if it is hard for us to 
do: 
>
>     We are forced to revoke the 1974 unification. 
>     We fear that such forbidden sins may slowly 
>     infiltrate into our colonies. Although it is said, 
>     that you say you don't live on customs and 
>     traditions but on love, may we point out to you 
>     that a church without customs and traditions is not 
>     a true church. God is a God of ordinance, and he 
>     wants ordinance to be adhered to by his followers, 
>     and that includes customs and traditions. 
>     In German: Gott ist ein Gott der Ordnung, und er 
>     will haben dasz unter seinen Volk Ordnung sein soll. 
>
>Now what causes division between us? Let us read Jes. 59 v 2. 'But your
>iniquities (Untugend) have separated between you and your God, and your
>sins have hid his face from you that he will not hear. And 1 John 5 v 7
>says
>
>   "All unrighteousness (Untugend) is sin." Now we do not claim to be
>    infallible, because we are prone to sin like all humans, but when the
>    Elders of a church deliberately and without any considerations openly
>    exercise play-acting, music and all such things, as mentioned in this
>    letter, we feel we have to voice our objections, lest we should be 
found
>    guilty in the eyes of the almighty God. 
>
>Therefore we, the Darius and Lehrerleut 
>Congregations, declare and reveal to you the Arnold 
>Congregation, that hereafter you are not recognized as 
>Brothers in Faith, and ask you to refrain, yes, stop using 
>and tarnishing the Hutterite name and image with your 
>anti-Hutterian deeds. We ask that in the future you not 
>send any of your literature and 'The Plough' for fear of 
>being led astray, because we have sadly experienced that 
>our counselling was in vain all these years. Very Sincerely, 
>
>signed for the Dariusleut, John K. Wurz, M. S. Stahl. 
>For the Lehrerleut, John S. Wipf, John Kleinsasser.

Hmmm...So, I would imagine that this is the time they decided to trademark
"Bruderhof", which, of course, eventually led to them deciding to use
modern-age legal tatics, and attempt to remove a newsgroup by threatening
to sue the creator.  Interesting.

 -- .sig and PGP Block follow.  Visit http://www.dimensional.com/~janda/
^L
   "Scientology is already being applied in many of the larger businesses
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      ---L. Ron Hubbard, "The Problems of Work"

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