Jim Rizoli's meeting with the
Jehovah's Witness Judicial Committee on May 19 1996
Northbridge MA USA

When a Jehovah's Witness is accused of "sin" he\she goes before a Judicial Committee which consist of three elders of the congregation to discuss the "problem". If the member has sinned without showing repentance the erring one gets disfellowshipped. If the person feels that mistakes were made in the actions of the elders for this disfellowshipping then a right to appeal is made available.

The following is a written transcript of appeal Judicial meeting of Jim Rizoli, a Jehovah's Witness for 23 years, 17 of those years as a full time minister devoting time and energy to spreading their unique doctrine. Jim appeared before 6 elders of the Jehovah's Witnesses May 19, 1996. Permission was granted by Jim Rizoli to have his words tape recorded.

These meetings are supposed to have all available evidence presented by both parties to establish truth. The principle of this scripture below is usually of prime importance in these appeal hearings and all judicial matters:

[nwt Deuteronomy] 19:15 "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin, in the case of any sin that he may commit. At the mouth of two WITNESSES or at the mouth of three WITNESSES the matter should stand good.

YOU be the judge if those Biblical "principles" were abided by at this trial.

Introduction of the Elders the for the appeal.

Robert Booth a Springfield MA USA elder introduces the elders to Jim.

RB........First of all I thank you for taking the time to meet with us this afternoon. I'm brother Robert Booth of Springfield. Glen Lipham of Springfield, David Geditti of Springfield.

RB.. We have been asked to come and hear your appeal, the appeal of the Northbridge elders made to disfellowship you.

RB..We would like to hear from you why your are appealing the decision. What is the reason for you appealing your case?

Jim R....
I've prepared some briefs short version, long version. I'm going to give you each the short version. .........

I presented here some information that I feel that the whole meeting was not carried out Biblically based on the scriptures.

First of all I used a 96 ( Watchtower article, actually 1995 ) and the information here is pertinent to my case. Here's what it said.

The article say's " Two elders can advise him along with the principles of Mat 18:15 he should personally approach the accused about the matter"

.....There were 4 accusers against me and not one of them approached me in harmony with Mat 18.

Quoting article again:

"If the accuser is not emotionally able to do so face to face it can be done by telephone or by writing a letter. In this way the accuser is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answers to the accusations and he may be able to present evidence that he could not of committed the abuse"

We're not talking about abuse but about my situation. What I said. There were letters written against me and I never saw those letters. The elders never presented the letters to me. How can I even make a case when the evidence is not there? They said they had the letters, infact it was the first time that I ever heard of the letters. But I never saw the letters.

Quoting again:

"If the accusation is denied than nothing can be done more in a judicial way, the congregation will continue to view that person as an innocent person. The Bible say's that their must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken."

... So in this case here you have 4 people accusing me, only one person showed up at the meeting face to face with me, and his information was a year old, and I don't remember what I said to this brother, and that was a year or so ago. So his case there is hearsay, because we can't get together on what was said, I don't know even what was said and to use the against me is not right.

Moving down here quote:

" Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially", and here are my points layed out simply.

The accusers never approached me in harmony with Mat 18. They never came to me with a witness about the situation either. So thats the next step that has to be taken. So obviously if step number one wasn't taken then step number two wasn't.

There was no reason that I'm aware of for preventing these accusers to not meet with me face to face. There wasn't an emotional issue that they were afraid that I was going to hurt them. they should of came to me. They wrote letters but I didn't see the letters either. I was told (third point) a year or so after the fact that two accusers wrote letters against me. I was never shown the letters. How can I answer the charges against me at the time? The elders have the letters they've never brought them out at the judicial meeting. Today I haven't even seen them.


How can I be disfellowshipped as an un-repentant sinner, I never knew what the charges against me were until the meeting with the elders.

They charged me with Loose Conduct, I never heard that charge until the meeting with the elders when they disfellowshipped me. How can you be un-repentant when this is the first time when I heard the charge. My view of the charge of Loose Conduct is open to interpretation. Nowhere in the Bible or in the Watchtower writings is the application applying to me based on what they said. It's all dealing with sexual matters or matters dealing with a sexual nature.

In my long brief, it's 8 pages .........Let me finish this last point, they define loose conduct an outright wanting disregard for authority, that's their definition of it. Who's the authority that I'm showing disrespect for? Now, Bro Perkins mentioned briefly that he didn't like the way I spoke against Bro Crispin, Is that the authority that I spoke against? That's my question. What's the answer? I don't know the answer. Who is the authority that I spoke against that your using this Scripture of "Loose Conduct" against me for showing disrespect and disregard, who is the person that I showed this disrespect to?

Now about my other situation with Bro Crispin. Although that was said, it had no bearing on my case, yet I believe it does. here's 8 pages,( Jim passes the pages out to the elders present ) you guys can keep these for your records. This is a little longer and I'll try to go through this as quick as I can. Now I'm getting into more specifics.

I'm appealing this case for 3 main reasons.

1. Vital information was not presented to me about my situation to Bro Crispin.

Now there's a situation that they say has no bearing on this case. I think that one of the reasons they said that I spoke against authority was that they said that I was speaking against Bro Crispin. So thats fine. But no one ever told me that they spoke to Bro Crispin. And what information do they have from Bro Crispin about me?

2. Again I never met the accusers. Most of the information against me is hearsay. It's their word against mine.

3. Where am I an un-repentant sinner?

Then I get into this whole thing about my being disfellowshipped for Loose Conduct, being an outright wanting disregard for authority. Where does it say it, Who's the authority that I'm speaking against?

I feel Bro Crispin slandered me here when I moved into this congregation 7 years ago. I was an elder in another congregation and I moved here with a good recommendation that came back from Framingham. We'll I wasn't re-appointed. They never told me a reason. They never told me a reason why. I tried the best I could to get the information from the Brothers. They wouldn't tell me. They always gave excuses why I wasn't appointed. You were this and you were that etc....I feel Bro Crispin influenced them against me and no one ever told me what he said. To this day I don't know. Bro Perkins denies ever talking to Bro Crispin. But then at the meeting that I was disfellowshipped it came out that he said that he spoke to Bro Crispin. I don't get it. How can you deny something for years and then you said ( Perkins ) "I talked to Bro Crispin in passing" or however he worded it. So I feel that some vital information was withheld. I think that's very important.

On the third page of my brief.

I called up Bro Perkins on May 11, 1996. I felt that I had a Mat 18 with Bro Perkins because I feel that he did not tell me the truth. So I asked him, on the next page, basically did you speak to Bro Crispin? Bro Perkins said "We mentioned it in passing"

Now remember, he just denied for years speaking to Bro Crispin and then he said he talked to him "in passing"

Then he said we'll whether he did or not it doesn't change the situation. Well I think it does change the situation. Because thats information that I really should have had.

" I didn't know anything about it" Perkins said "Your trying to make a case and you don't have one"

Well I think I do have a case. Somebody is not being honest with me dealing with that case and Brother Crispin, which I think has a bearing on my being disfellowshipped because I think the elders are using that against me saying I spoke against him ( Crispin ) or part of it. I have a problem with that.

See I'm familiar with the Scripture [nwt Bible verses] 1 TIMOTHY -- nwt 5:19 Do not admit an accusation against an older man, except only on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

I understand that. Well I believe that Bro Crispin wronged me. I asked these elders, I begged them, lets do something about it not them specifically but elders over the last 7 years about what could be done about it. No one ever took up the cause. I can see why. To go against the Circuit Overseer? I wasn't afraid of him. He wronged me. When I met Bro Crispin at a Circuit Assembly one day, Bro Crispin said it was the elders here ( in Northbridge ) that sto I asked some of the elders here and they said it was Bro Crispin. Nobody admitted who was responsible. Nobody.

That situation there has hurt myself and my wife tremendously. They don't realize how much it has hurt my wife. My wife puts on a good show, she knows what happened. She sees what happened. I had one Brother, Bro Hagenback, he was working with me one day out in service and he admitted to me, ( now remember after all these years now them putting me off being an elder with their petty excuses, Bro Hagenback said to me Bro Crispin had it out for you, he had problem with you.. He's the only one that has admitted that. He wasn't there to hear it, he heard it only through hearsay, through somebody, you'd have to ask him.. So that was my situation. with Bro Crispin, and again the hurt and the pain it has cost to me and my wife, it's a stumbling block to my wife like nobodys business to me today. My wife is this close to having a nervous breakdown I hope you brothers understand that.....( tape pause )....Because nobody talks to us, nobody tells us whats going on., you live in a congregation where nobody tells you whats going on, this or this I just have a horrible problem with that, my wife sees it she just goes to meetings the best she can, if she ends up in a psyche ward who's responsible me? Here I am I'm just trying to defend myself, I have accusations against myself leveled against me, no witnesses nothing, who I feel are lying, I'm very hurt by it all, but thats that situation there.
Getting back to this case about the ten reasons why they disfellowshipped me. I wrote these down, they said I was disfellowshipped for

1. Not one of the prophecies that the Society has made has ever come true.
2. I questioned the channel that Jehovah used from the first century to the time of Bro.Russell
3. The Society hides things from people.
4. I don't think the elders are appointed by holy spirit.
5. Elders blindly follow direction from each other and the organization.
6. The Society lied, they tried to make it look like Ray Franz was an apostate when in fact he was not. 7. The elders are like David who put Uriah in the front line to be killed.
8. Brothers and elders are Bozo's
9. The brothers are cowards
10. The brothers are a bunch of hypocrites, liars.

(For question one) I asked them, WHO said this? They didn't tell me

Question 2.
I have never questioned that in my life, WHO said it, thats not true. They never told me who said these things. Every single one of these I was never told WHO said these things to me...

Elder interrupts....
All of these things here, not all of them, you never said not one of the Societys prophecies has come true?

Jim R.
Thats not the issue, my issue is this. If somebody makes an accusation against you, he has to say it face to face to me, so my question is who said it? They never faced me on it. I don't have to answer it.

( He ask again if the accusation was true. )

Jim R.
I am not going to say anything unless the people are there in front of me, if they are going to make an accusation to me I'm going to comment to that, but they have not come before me so I really....Bro Perkins didn't tell me what was going on with Bro Crispin, he had a right to tell me what was going on with Bro Crispin,

Elder interrupts...
So you feel justified in your point of view ?

Jim R.
I just feel that I'm not going to implicate myself on anything. I think thats why they had such a hard time with my case. I'm not going to implicate myself in anything. Those are my own personal feelings

Elder comments inaudible.....

Jim R.
I don't remember who said them, who I said them to.. .....

Well thats what we're asking you...

Jim R.
I don't know, and I deny the charge because I don't know who I said it too. Elder... YOU DENY you ever said that...categorically? Jim R. ABSOLUTELY!! Elder.. Categorically Jim R. ABSOLUTELY 2. I questioned the channel that Jehovah used. How can you question that channel? Nobody knows who was there. I never said that. Elder.... OK, let me ask you this question, He repeats the question about the "channe"l of communication that God has used from the first century up to Bro Russell. You said you never said that. Jim R. I never said that. Elder... Are you questioning ( that now ) Jim R. Pause in transmission, Well let me put the question back to you........ ...I feel as lomg as the channel is presenting information in harmony with scripture I have no problem with it. Thats the question. Elder So what channel is God using in harmony with scripture? Jim R. Thats the channel Elder.. What channel is that? Jim R. Thats the channel that Jehovah is using. Elder.. What is that? Jim R. Well it's based on Scripture. Elder.. So what channel is Jehovah using? Jim R. The organization... I have no problem with Him using the organization. But I have a question for you. What happens when the organization presents something that goes against Scripture? Then what happens? Then what do we do? If I showed you something that the Watchtower said one thing and the Bible said completely the opposite. Elder.. Let me ask you this question Do you except the Bible as Gods Word? Jim R. Absolutely Elder.. Do you recall the account of the Israelites walking in the wilderness? And among those who walked 40 years in the wilderness with the Israelites were Joshua and Caleb. Recall that? They were two of the 12 spies who spied out the land of Canaan. They came back saying we should do what Jehovah is telling us to do. The rest of them said no, we don't want to do that. That was Jehovah's organization as a nation, the Israelites... Did Joshua and Caleb say.....for you people because that's what Jehovah has told us what to do, forget about the rest of these people they spent 40 years in the wilderness, yet those who didn't go in .....( some parts inaudible ) do you get my point? Jim R. No.... I don't understand.... Elder... You say no I ask you that if the Organization is presenting to us something that not in harmony with the Scriptures what are we to do? didn't the nation of Israel work in harmony with the direction that Jehovah' gave them at that time? Did Joshua and Caleb leave? Jim R Now I see, ya But anyway this point here........ Elder I'm asking you the question here Jim, do you believe ( God is using this organization ? ) Jim R. As long the Watchtower is doing things based on the Bible I have no problem with it, that's all I can tell you. Because I've seen Elders do things that went against what the Bible says. Elder For instance.. Jim R. Appoint people as servants and elders when they knew they were sexually immoral. I got evidence I got facts, I got everything that I can show you. I told you brothers that ( Northbridge elders ) I have more information that you can't imagine. Elder.. Why didn't you bring that to light of the elders ? Jim R. I did Elder ( Perry ) Acknowledging that I promised Jim that I would bring that information to the responsible people, and I did do that. Jim R. Let me tell you something here. How serious this becomes. I know of a situation right now that could end up with elders in jail....because of the information. Because I gave the information to Perry and Perry just mentioned it to the Brothers in passing. Do you know it's a federal offense to sexually abuse your children? You can end up in jail. Elder.. responds "of course you can" Jim R. The elders in the Framingham Congregation covered this up. I have evidence I have information. They covered it up. There is a brother who was appointed a Ministerial Servant now,.. that, this brother sexually made a pass at my brothers wife, two weeks later or shortly there after, he was made a Ministerial Servant, the elders knew about the pass. Elder Those matters a obviously serious matters maybe we should just get...... Jim R. I'm just making a point, you asked me a question, and this brother here I learned from his son that something was going on with the girls. And this brother was in the congregation, everything was hunky dory and when it all came up with the last year or two, something that this brother could go to jail on, nobody knows about. Elder.. Well let me understand that you have a reason for you to have doubts..... Jim R. I have a problem with people that come off that they are doing whats right but behind the backs are doing things so wicked that Christendom would be ashamed. Elder.. What do you suppose you should do? Jim R. What I did, I felt had to be done, because I felt that their was a lot of corruption and a lot of things going against scripture, I just kind of backed off from it all. I resigned as a Servant, I resigned as a Pioneer, I stepped back because I did not wa to be kind of Elder.. You didn't try to bring any of these matters out.... Jim R Sure I did, what do you think happens, the people don't want to hear. Like I told you about Bro Crispin. Ever elder that moved into this congregation new about Bro Crispin. Not one of them said Jim I think we should get together with Bro Crispin, not one of them. Now this is serious. Elder.. ( completely changing the subject ) How does this relate to your view of the Organization? Jim R. I feel that this organization is great as long as long as their...again the organization doesn't in courage those things.. I'm not saying they but it bothers me to see an abuse of power. I have a problem with abuse of power. I've seen it all my life , I've been in the organization for 23 years Elder interrupts.. Brother you've read the Bible, haven't you? Haven't you noticed through there examples of individuals who did things that were improper, yet they were in Gods organization? Jim R. That's true. But see I chose because I didn't want to cause a stink about it, I didn't want to cause a furor about it. I chose to back off. I just kind of said I can't take this anymore or I'll end up in a nut house. I mean I'll be there with my wife pretty soon. But anyway I backed off and think about this, Perry got a good heart and he's a good guy, he goes to the elders in Framingham and say's hey there's been reports of a situation, now remember these reports are known in the world now, It's not that it's just me. I have people coming to me about them. It's known what's happened, It's known, that's what bothers me, this isn't just a matter that you can just sweep under the rug with the elders any more. Now, Perry calls up the elder and he relays the message and said, this is some information that I thought you'd know. That's like going to somebody who's murdered somebody and saying, you know there's someone who's been murdered and we just wanted you to know, when that person did the murder. Elder Perry.. Can I correct....I want you to understand, I also went to the CO ( Circuit Overseer ) It was not said in passing, I specifically called and talked to people. I called the brothers in the congregation involved. I also talked to the CO about it. Jim R. Did you talk to Ed Leonard? Elder interrupts.. What is the connection does this have to do with our being here? Jim R. I think the connection is this. Why am I where I am? Because I stepped back and here and didn't want to be bothered anymore with all this baloney. I can't take it any more. That's why I'm where I'm at. Isn't that most important to you brothers? You want to correct me, my thinking? It's good to know my thinking. I'm where I am know which is more important to what I said is where I am now. I'm where I am now because that's the only way I could deal with it and handle it. I had to just step back from the whole picture. Elder.. Where are you at? Jim R. Here I am. It might be nowhere but here I am. I'm just trying to get on with my life. I have people bringing accusations against me, people accusing me of things, saying this and saying that, slandering me, defaming my good name. Elder ( totally ignoring anything just said ) Your just categorically denying you said any of these things.. Jim R. Absolutely! First of all when were these things said? Who said them? When were they said? I don't know when they were said. Could some of these questions have been a misunderstanding ? Elder Let me ask you this. Did you say what is mentioned in accusation 8? Jim R. Yes I said that. But let me clarify that. I said... I think that numbers 7,8,9, and 10 I said to these elders. The reason I said them, now I wasn't saying ALL of them were. Have you ever met an elder who you have thought was a Bozo? Hey I've met plenty of them. I said, SOME elders are Bozos, let me clarify that should be in there. The brothers are cowards, SOME brothers are cowards, not all of them, I've met some pretty good elders that would stand up for a case. The brothers are a bunch of hypocrites and liars. Well if they don't answer my questions and say to me Jim this is the truth what is my conclusion of them? If Brother Perkins doesn't give me the information that I deserve about Bro Crispin I can only say, gee some ones, I don't want to use the term lying but, Is someone lying to me? I didn't make this statement ALL of them were. I'm just saying it appears to me that there is some problems in these areas. I don't feel all brothers are Bozos like I said I know plenty of good brothers, I know some brothers who will stand up for things, I got no problem with that. What did I mean by the elders being like David who put Uriah in the front lines to be killed, I guess I said that uh, or did I say that.... Elder How about question 6 The Society lied they tried to make Franz like an apostate, I don't know where did I say that? Who did I say that too? Elder Thats what I'm asking you. Jim R. Thats interesting because with the information that I have that has been presented to me from various people, people in this organization to, they said no. Ray Franz was not disfellowshipped for apostasy. You can check your records for that. Ray Franz was not. Ray Franz, and again I'm not saying I agree with him or disagree with him, I'm just saying Ray Franz left Bethel and he was given $ 10,000 to leave. He wanted to leave so they gave him $ 10,000 to leave and he went to Georgia. For two years he was in the congregation in Georgia, he wasn't disfellowshipped. He was a regular person in the congregation. Thats my only point there. Then again I'm not saying the Society is saying anything against him, I don't think they are commenting on him. But if someone makes a comment and says Ray Franz was an apostate at Bethel, that's not true. He resigned more or less, he was asked to leave kinda, he went to Georgia. Two years later they disfellowshipped him for eating a meal with his boss, who was disassociated, two years later. So that statement is slanderous. I just want to let you brothers know. When someone makes a statement about Ray Franz...he left Bethel, I'm not saying he left with honors, but he left because he wanted to leave, they asked him to leave, they gave him $ 10,0000 to leave Bethel, he went to Georgia, you can call the Watchtower and ask them about that, they'll tell you, you can find out when he left Bethel, and when he was disfellowshipped. He didn't get disfellowshipped at Bethel. thats my point. Elder Have you got in contact with him? Writing? Correspondence? Jim R How would I get in contact with Ray. No, No why would I get in touch with him. I..I don't hate the guy, I don't know much about him. Thats the situation with Ray Franz. If the Watchtower wants to say that he was kicked out for apostasy, thats up to them..... My big point is this loose conduct thing, I'm blown away by that I mean loose conduct, give me a break. To imply that it has a sexual nature to it, and then again I'm being disfellowshipped for it, and I never even heard the term. I quoted a couple of articles from the Watchtower, just to show you in passing that all the articles had to do with a sexual nature. show me otherwise. I'm here to see what you got to say. Elder This comes from a 1973 Watchtower.... Elder So your saying you couldn't find any articles other that sexual in nature. Did you realize that then the word itself can indicate brazen disregard for laws other than sexual immorality? Jim R. Then that was my question then, who was the law that I was speaking against? I didn't spend all night looking this information up.... I did spend about an hour or two looking. what do you got for me... Elder Sept 15, 1973 p. 574-5 Questions from readers Of course this is a two and a half page explanation, much of it gets into sexual matters, but note the first paragraph. As it shows it doesn't just define that. *** w73 9/15 574-6 Questions from Readers *** Questions from Readers What does the expression "loose conduct" as found at Galatians 5:19 mean?-U.S.A. One might assume that this term (from the Greek word a7sel'gei7a) refers to conduct that is immoral but in a minor or not so serious way. This, however, is not the case according to the available evidence in Scripture and also in the ancient secular Greek writings in which this word appears. It is not limited to acts of sexual immorality. And, rather than relating to bad conduct of a somewhat petty or minor nature, it apparently describes acts that reflect a brazen attitude, one that betrays disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority. The 'looseness' of the conduct, therefore, is not due principally to weakness but results from an attitude of disrespect, insolence or shamelessness. Jim R Allright...Thats a good article but my question is where did I show the disrespect and shamefulness, where? I was never told where. No one said.... The only thing I got from Bro Perkins, when he said, and I believe you said this Larry, that I didn't like the way you spoke ( Jim ) about Bro Crispin. Thats what he said. Didn't you say that? I thought thats what he said. I'm saying to myself, How would you know about how I spoke about Bro Crispin when you never talked to him? See, I made an allegation against Bro Crispin, I called him a liar. Because for all intense purpose thats what it seemed happened. He didn't tell the truth about me. I asked for information and to this day the brothers all claim they don't know anything about it. so is it Bro Crispin...I never ever said that about the Watchtower. I never ever said that about you elders, I don't think I did, did I show brazen disrespect,..hey I'm an emotional guy, don't mix that up with my emotions.. Elder Let me ask you this question. Did the Brothers in their efforts to communicate with you and help you ever say to you at any time Jim I can see dealing with you....emotionally. We all sin many times the Bible says that there's no man that doesn't and if he doesn't he's a perfect man.. But in their discussions with you at any time say well Jim, you might feel this way, you know it would be good if you try to get control of your feelings and not let them run away with you and speak things in the hearing of others that could have their faith undermined by what they hear you saying because that is what the tongue can do. the Bible say's it's a little member and it makes brags, it can set a whole woodland on fire, it can be destructive to a group of people, especially who maybe having difficulties in their lives. Every one today struggles in their efforts retain their faith and integrity to Jehovah God and to follow the direction of his Organization...everyone is fighting to do that. And so for people who are already in trouble spiritually and then for them to hear you say things that could just..be devastating to them, and make it harder for them...did anyone ever talk to you like that? Jim R. Sorta.... Elder They did... Jim R. These brothers have been very good to me. I'll be honest with you, these guys have been really good. Elder Fine I'm glad to hear you really say that. What did you do? Jim R. First of all, I don't go looking for trouble, trouble goes looking for me. Thats what happens. I don't go seeking people out you know what I mean to talk to them. I'm not saying their weren't times that I was really down and out on things and I said things that I shouldn't said because I have. I admit that, I'm sorry for that. Infact I don't know if they mentioned to you but this last escapade I had with this Ruth Jones thing I called her up twice and apologized, and I said I'm really sorry that this went this far ba babbabbbah. I mean I don't know what to say. Then again lets reverse it. What about the elders that have done things against me, are they looking at it from that way? Here is a brother here who is really trying real hard and look what were doing to this guy. Have they looked at my wife and said gee, she's looking on this to and we're stepping on her too, I mean it goes both ways. I admit I have my problems. Elder What things do you feel...now you said you have no problems with the elders here.. Jim R. I feel the elders here have been trying to help me, I feel there kinda like in a pickle with this situation. We've got so may things that have happened. But I don't want to use the word corruption but I use corruption only because people in authority abusing their power, and I've seen it. I've seen it so bad, it saddens me to see it. These guys have been good, I must admit there not like the brothers in Framingham, the brothers in Framingham, oh boy. That's because my brother was there. Elder When you first came here, in 1989, and when you came here you were an elder in Framingham, and you had no problems with the brothers there at the time? Jim R. No, No, Infact I got a great recommendation coming here. Elder Did you work with the body of elders here ( there )? Jim R. Ya, it was great I don't want to pull up all the past here but there's some serious problems with some people there not telling the truth. You know my brother was disfellowshipped there. Elder For what? Jim R. Good question. Because to this day he don't even know. Not only that as far as he understands he wa interesting situation, what happened there. See my brother Joe, were twins, he's a little emotional than me if you can believe that. He took them to task, He took these brothers to task on what was going on, the corruption, the lying, and they just buried it. they just turned it all around on him. You know whats interesting with his last meeting with the elders. He accused the body of elders, ( one Bob Solar of slander ) they accused him of lying, picture this, Bro Solar apologized in front of all the elders because he knew he was a wrong. He said I'm sorry Joe, blablablabla, I shouldn't have said that. The next week ( Joe ) was disfellowshipped for lying. Now picture that. Bro Solar just apologized to my brother Joe, and said we know you didn't lie.( actually Joe charged Bob solar with slander and that's what he apologized for, but the slander centered around calling Joe a liar ) Elder How do you know that were you in that meeting? Jim R. My brother told me. Elder Don't you think thats kind of biased? Jim R. No it's not biased. Let me tell you something about my brother Joe, he might be a lot of things, he's not a liar. Elder Let me tell you something. Unless you sit in those meetings you don't know what going on. Jim R. Well I was in quite a few of those meetings. Want to hear what happened at one of those meetings? All elders No Noo Nooo Jim R. Well you just asked me. I was in a major meeting that we accused, my brother and I, two eye witnesses, against Bro Conley for lying, two of us one of him, you know what the elders did? We don't buy it. And I was an elder at the time. Elder ( obviously nothing is hitting home for these dense elders ) Lets get back to this thing about the "pickle" that the elders are in.... Jim R. The pickle I think is because this isn't a simple case. It's not a simple case. Elder Why not? Jim R. What it appears is I'm being disfellowshipped for exposing something. Even though it's not. Thats what it is going to appear to be. Elder What have you exposed? Jim R. The wrong doing over there ( in Framingham ) The sexual immorality, the cover up of sexual abuse of children. I mean this is heavy stuff. Here I am presenting this to them and the next week I'm disfellowshipped. Now they will say it has no bearing on it and I can understand it. But thats not how it looks. Elder How would that look for the people that way unless you tell them that? Jim R. Well that the point. I'm being slandered and defamed right now. People are saying I'm this and this and this. I have no accusers against me. I have no people eyewitnesses against me and I'm being slandered. I don't know what to do. If I'm disfellowshipped, what about my good name, what about my reputation. what happens with it? Elder You have every opportunity to rebuild that and come toward reinstatement. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ( Authors note ) Notice what is said here. Jim even though he has presented an excellent case in his defense has already been judged by this appeal hearing. Just an observation. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jim R. You think so? I doesn't work so easy. Elder I don't understand, what "pickle" do you think their in here? Jim R. Well I think there's been pressure put on them. I think there's been a lot of correspondence with Brooklyn on em. Elder Pressure to do what? Jim R. Pressure to disfellowship me. Elder.. For what? Jim R. Good question. Good question, I don't know for what...Loose conduct? Elder Let me get your thinking. You feel that this charge of loose conduct is absolutely false. Jim R. Yes! Elder You don't feel you have displayed disrespect, disregard for authority and have done so in blatant manner? Jim R. No! Because I've asked you the question, who's the authority? I still haven't got the answer. I'm still waiting. Who's the authority I showed disrespect and wanting disregard for? You still haven't told me. Elder That the basis of your claim? Jim R. Absolutely, I don't know who it is against. You can't just accuse me of doing that when you don't tell me who I did it against. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ At this time the elder of the appeal committee ask for a private moment with the first judicial committee. Of course this is behind closed doors and out of hearing of Jim Rizoli. This is not your typical hearing at the "city gates" for all to hear. This would be like a court case where the prosecutors ask for a private moment with the judge out of the hearing of the defense. It would be intolerable in a court of law for that to happen yet, for the Jehovah's Witnesses judicial committees this is typical of their Watchtower justice. When I was disfellowshipped in 1991 the appeal committee did the same thing to me. Jim Rizolis comment: "You can't just accuse me of doing that when you don't tell me who I did it against". Is a master Biblical blow to this committee. Their case is Biblically lost here for insufficient evidence. Without knowing who he has sinned against makes this committee Biblically illegal, not only in the eyes of God, but legally. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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